Using a whole school approach to build effective relationships between students, teachers and wider community

Joel Richardson is Head of Health and Physical Education at St Edmunds College, Canberra, a Year 4-12 all-boys school. St Edmunds is a Catholic School in the Tradition of Edmund Rice, it educates young men spiritually, academically, socially, physically and creatively in a compassionate Catholic context.

Joel discusses how he skilfully builds relationships with his students and emphasises that relationships between students, teachers and parents means ‘everything’ at the school. Relationship building is considered a continual process from when boys enrol to when they leave. 

Joel has some incredible techniques including advising teachers to ‘flip’ the conversation, by asking a question rather than ‘telling’ students what to do and to challenge students to be the best they can be.

A must listen.

Transcript

00:00:06 John

So I'm with Joe Richardson, who's head of health and Pe at Edmunds College in Canberra and I'm taking this opportunity is building on what I've noticed about you, Joe, is that you're incredibly good at building relationships with the students in the school and I really noticed that when I've been out.

00:00:26 John

Working with you and as a result of that, I thought this would be a really good podcast for the health Promoting Schools committee. So welcome. And yeah, how's your day been so far?

00:00:35 Joel

Yeah, it's been good since Friday, yeah.

00:00:38 Joel

Busy time of the year we've got.

00:00:40 Joel

Our our swimming carnival.

00:00:41 Joel

Tomorrow and our athletics carnival next Friday.

00:00:45 Joel

Yeah, after basketball at the at the.

00:00:46 Joel

College as well. So it's a, it's.

00:00:48 John

A. It's a busy time, yes. And then I'm not exaggerating and we spoke a little bit off here. I'm about your your skill or aptitude, if you like. For building those relationships. So I want to talk about that and I think I'll put some context.

00:01:04 John

To this and the context is that.

00:01:07 John

I noticed one of the last times I was out at the school walking from the main building out to the demountable, where some of your classrooms are, and I noticed a number of times you spoke to kids as we were just walking casually across and the playground and and it really kind of struck me and how much you do off that, how natural it was. And I wanted to talk to you.

00:01:27 John

The What's your thinking behind that? Why do you do it? Is a natural thing for you. What the benefits? Those kind of things.

00:01:34 Joel

Yeah, I I guess.

00:01:37 Joel

I just paint the picture a.

00:01:38 Joel

Little bit is I I started at 1516 years ago and I I guess where I am now is is in a completely different space to to where I was when I started. I'm obviously super comfortable in, in, in my environment.

00:01:57 Joel

They're around the families and the boys at that college. Every time you also have come here or anyone that I've worked with with the University of Canberra, I I always.

00:02:08 Joel

Stress the importance that our school is completely relationship based, relationships over everything to our boys. So it probably took me a little while to understand that that that problem got told that was told to me when I first started. But our our boys are.

00:02:29 Joel

Our boys are very much.

00:02:32 Joel

Based on how we build a relationship with them, not necessarily just in the classroom, but what that relationship looks like.

00:02:41 Joel

Only they should get when they first leave.

00:02:46 Joel

I guess when I when I first started.

00:02:48 Joel

I was. I was.

00:02:50 Joel

Going in a pastoral role and.

00:02:53 Joel

I probably took the the approach that of that.

00:02:55 Joel

Hard line discipline.

00:02:56 Joel

Approach and I don't think I don't think it was getting me.

00:03:01 Joel

Anywhere or anywhere I was, I wasn't. I wasn't nowhere near as effective as I was now. So when you ask is it is it a natural thing? I think it has become natural, but I don't think it necessarily was.

00:03:13 Joel

At the start.

00:03:16 Joel

Think we when you walk through court and I stop and talk to boys in.

00:03:21 Joel

You know 100 metres.

00:03:23 Joel

So I'll look at that ease. No matter how small that conversation to me is, or no matter how quick that conversation is.

00:03:35 Joel

Hold that 510 seconds. It could be two minutes. Whatever it it may be, that might be the most significant conversation in in that boys day, they.

00:03:44 Joel

Might come to.

00:03:45 Joel

School with no breakfast. They might not have had a a a good sleep. They whatever, there's home licencing.

00:03:53 Joel

These to lay that well and present at school. It's a it's an opportunity for boys to to feel safe, to be respected, to know that someone's there, to, to listen, to care.

00:04:07 Joel

And and that conversation can be about anything. It could be about how they went on the weekend. That could be how they.

00:04:13 Joel

Trying for basket.

00:04:15 Joel

That moment or or what? Whatever it is, it's that little 510 seconds stick to the of that boys day that they can turn around and go. OK, well, I've got someone at school that has my back. If something goes wrong or you, you could. If I need to go talk to someone. OK, well, there there's someone there that listen. So I think I've developed that over time rather than.

00:04:35 Joel

Sort of. It become natural.

00:04:38 John

Yeah, it's interesting that there's so much you just covered in that short part. I want to. I said this at the beginning. What age are the kids at the?

00:04:46 John

School at the college.

00:04:47 Joel

Yeah. So we range from year 40, year 12.

00:04:51 John

Right, OK, that's that's good. Just for bad context, what I was interested to to start with one of the things you said was the fact that that kind of disciplinary kind of the narrative for power that you might have and it's actually not any good in many ways. Obviously, we've got as a last resort.

00:05:09 John

There's something I talked to my students about there.

00:05:11 John

You know, this idea of being quite disappointed and quite hard. And then today you've gotta repair those relationships and there's a lot to be said for all this season as a last resort. And it's interesting to hear that you've got the same kind of idea about that. And I guess what I'd like to ask you more about is just to go a bit deeper about why it's important for the whole school. It's not just.

00:05:32 John

Health and PE thing, which is what your subject is, but that whole can have healthy.

00:05:37 John

Cool tape outage and it sounds like you've got a culture there with that is obviously important because you are. You're told to try and embrace that. Can you tell me about the significance of building relationships for those boys as far as the whole school's concerned?

00:05:53 Joel

Yeah, please. The whole approach and worst of the lucky to.

00:05:57 Joel

Have.

00:05:58 Joel

Summer in the most amazing.

00:05:59 Joel

Stuff that that a word we from a.

00:06:02 Joel

And from interfaculty.

00:06:04 Joel

But.

00:06:05 Joel

Our amazing heads of house who go above and beyond every small valley to to the six line teacher that is in the practise period 6 by Friday afternoon I think from our from our leadership team, it's this will always stick with me.

00:06:24 Joel

I I I look at and I think about.

00:06:26 Joel

Look.

00:06:27 Joel

That every decision that where the school should make or every decision that and you should make as a teacher has to come back to how he's going to benefit aid of students. Secondly, start and and then also the the wider community. So obviously our our whole business out.

00:06:47 Joel

My business is to to perfect the student. So what? What are the decision where my?

00:06:54 Joel

Or how long are you going to build a relationship with the student? How is that going to impact that kid?

00:07:01 Joel

And how they feel about coming to school. So I think that's it. That's that's the sort of the whole school approach that, that, that I think is.

00:07:09 Joel

It's really important that we we sort of follow when it comes to that that building.

00:07:14 Joel

Responsibilities and also building.

00:07:16 Joel

Relationships from a sort of a whole school perspective.

00:07:20 John

Yeah, I'll give you some dog using them. Using the kid at the school and also the community. So it kind of leads me on to my final question about this and that would.

00:07:32 John

Be.

00:07:33 John

What would you? What would be your top tips in relation to or in addition to what you just said there for any teachers or anybody else?

00:07:40 John

Listening to this about relationship building in a school context and you know, really what the your top tips and the the real benefits of doing that just to finish off.

00:07:50 Joel

Yeah, I've. I've got a few, I guess that I think mate maybe building our relationship a little bit easier, I just touched on just previous like.

00:07:59 Joel

What are you trying to get out of the relationship? So what? What decision do you make or what? What's the decision you're making now? How does that make the benefit you, I think both first and foremost, I think when we I I find that connection and that doesn't I I don't care how small that.

00:08:18 Joel

Connection is or I I don't care how insignificant that connection is. I I think it's super important that.

00:08:27 Joel

Whether it's a 510 second conversation that you find that connection, whether.

00:08:31 Joel

It be sport.

00:08:32 Joel

What they did on.

00:08:33 Joel

The weekends family, where they go away.

00:08:36 Joel

Ask him a simple.

00:08:36 Joel

Question kids are so used to these days.

00:08:40 Joel

And he told that they've done something wrong and reward their hard working day and their like, their or their shirt untucked.

00:08:47 Joel

Well, let's sleep.

00:08:48 Joel

Sleep it a little bit nasty. And what did you do on the weekend? How did you how?

00:08:51 Joel

Did you go?

00:08:52 Joel

At Sport, I think that's a really simple.

00:08:55 Joel

Simple to you to to connect with with the boys. But but I also think.

00:09:01 Joel

Assign.

00:09:02 Joel

Challenging the boys as well or challenging students. I always talk from it all boys expect because I've been here for so long, but I think it's really important that we challenge the the students to get the best out of themselves, so not every conversation is going to be easy out. When this is completed to keep students.

00:09:21 Joel

Animal.

00:09:23 Joel

But you you if you do it in the right way. If you do it in a way that goes back to that first part about how is it gonna benefit the boys or how?

00:09:31 Joel

Is it going to benefit the students?

00:09:34 Joel

It's going to make them understand that, OK, well.

00:09:38 Joel

And these guys are here for me. I might not like the outcome. I might not.

00:09:42 Joel

Necessarily want that outcome to be what it is.

00:09:46 Joel

But it's going to set me up long term, long run so.

00:09:52 Joel

I think there's.

00:09:53 Joel

Probably a couple of things that I would say and also John, you know how busy we we are at schools these days. And I I I I just thought.

00:10:05 Joel

About this, before before I was.

00:10:06 Joel

Anyone.

00:10:07 Joel

Yeah.

00:10:08 Joel

Running a semifinal tomorrow and running basketball trolls and I. I'll I'll work with the boy on it off so that school and I was flat out and he he sort of stepped past the scene. He purposely just put everything down and stopped what I was doing and was just present.

00:10:28 Joel

I think there's so many, so many times when, when not present at school or in our lives, that made all the distractions take over and we're not giving out all to that person. So I think there's just a.

00:10:42 Joel

Couple of things that.

00:10:43 Joel

Further push myself on and then and sort of work towards to.

00:10:47 Joel

Make sure that.

00:10:47 Joel

Those relationships are are continually paying deal.

00:10:52 John

Yeah, it's really interesting and you know, I could talk about this forever because uh, you know, I've done a few interviews with different people for different things the past 12 months. And the common thing that people talk about isn't, uh, content knowledge is a helping PE teacher or pedagogy, first and foremost, the most experienced people that I talked to, they talk about them.

00:11:12 John

And so being relatable, and I like the idea of being in the present and the end of day is probably why most of us are teachers that have been teachers.

00:11:21 John

Because this is the idea of the relationships we build with the kids, the the content, the better gorgeous on the second to that and that kind of believable. That's obviously important. If I talk about quality, deliver delivery of the curriculum and all that. But you got to have those, those kind of connections and I think that what you spoke about as well.

00:11:41 John

What about the pressures of the job?

00:11:44 John

And that you can be concerned with that. But you know the other thing about this is if you put the effort into those relationships, I think kids shouldn't generally, even the students we teach and and tertiary education, those students are more understanding more they said and and you can you can be yourself more you don't have to put off on as much of a show.

00:12:04 John

Because you know that those those students will understand enough when things are hard for you as well. You've got a reciprocality that that you have from those relationships as well.

00:12:14 Joel

Yeah, that definitely. And I and that and.

00:12:16 Joel

I think that's a that's a huge that.

00:12:20 Joel

You need to.

00:12:20 Joel

See you as a human. Not, not a robot.

00:12:23 Joel

Or not a?

00:12:24 Joel

A person just out there delivering content, they're like we're we're still human at the end of the day and and and kids need to see that. And I guess be a part of your life as much as you being a part.

00:12:36 Joel

Of their lives.

00:12:38 John

Yeah, it's really interesting, you know, and.

00:12:40 John

Think.

00:12:41 John

I think we often are thinking the same thing, things we don't even have the time to have those kind of conversations we're having at the moment. And I really think that this will be useful for people just even to bring them back into the moment and to remind them of what is most important. And so I really appreciate having the chat been looking forward to for some time. They spoke about this probably about six months ago, even probably longer than that.

00:13:03 John

Yeah, and I'm. I'm just really pleased to and talking with giving up time, you're giving up this time and you've got a swimming carnival tomorrow. I mean, I I I can only imagine what time you'll be home today. Tonight after doing all that. So listen, thank you so much.

00:13:16 Joel

No thanks for having me, joy.

00:13:17

And I think.

00:13:18 Joel

It's been a pleasure.